psalm_onethirtyone | "With the World Turning Circles Running Round My Brain..."

Current Mood: geeky
Current Music: the fire in the fireplace crackling

"With the World Turning Circles Running Round My Brain..."

To be, or not to be. Aye, that's the point.
To die, to sleep, is that all? Aye, all.
No, to sleep, to dream, aye, marry, there it goes,
For in that dream of death, when we awake,
And borne again before an everlasting judge,
From whence no passenger ever returned,
The undiscovered country, at whose sight,
The happy smile, and the accursed damned.
But for this, the joyful hope of this,
Who'd bear the scorns and flattery of the world
Scorned by the right rich, the rich cursed of the poor?

...This is the version of the To be or not to be soliloquy first published in 1603. I cannot even begin to say how amused and thrilled I am. Except that I am very amused and thrilled. Because. zomg. ^__________^ Dorky.

It was published by the fellow who played Marcellus; James Shapiro says they know this because the only lines that were right were Marcellus', implying that he had actually, you know, learnt them.

But dude. There are just so. many. injokes. in Hamlet. It's not even funny (except that it really, really is). My favourite is the Caesar-Brutus/Polonius-Hamlet one, wherein the fellow who played Polonius also played Caesar, and Burbage, who played Hamlet, also played Brutus, so when Polonius says, 'I did enact Julius Caesar. I was killed i' th' Capitol; Brutus killed me,' he's talking about himself for serious. And, um, he's about to get stabbed by Brutus again.

...Not even funny.

Shapiro also points out that Hamlet's 'I prophesy th' election lights on Fortinbras; he has my dying voice' is kind of, oh, utterly ridiculous, since everybody is dead, and Fortinbras just invaded, dude. It's not like there's going to be an election. He also says--where is it, can't find it--aha, here--he also says that Hamlet's soliloquies are vastly important because Hamlet has nobody to talk to. And I quote, "His old friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are spies and viewed with suspicion. Horatio is deeply loyal, but likes the sound of his own words a bit too much and never seems fully to understand him (you can sense Hamlet's exasperation with his friend when he tells him that there 'are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy'. Given Gertrude's dependence on Claudius, she cannot be trusted either. And there's no hope of unburdening himself to his terrifying father, back from Purgatory"; he then goes on to address a great deal of reasons why Hamlet can't talk to Ophelia, either, and ends "We are all that's left". But. The sentence that grabs one's attention immediately is, of course:

'Horatio is deeply loyal, but likes the sound of his own words a bit too much'.

This is how I used to portray Horatio, long ago, when I first started writing Hamlet fanfic (to be precise, back when I was actually writing Les Mis fic and crossing it over with Hamlet. see Rosemary and Sage and Oranges); but now I interpret his character entirely differently (no, really?). It made me laugh and sulk both at once. Shapiro also goes on to point out several more examples of Horatio Just Not Getting It, most significantly at the end, when he has his 'so shall you hear of carnal, bloody, and unnatural acts' speech. "Horatio's words underscore much he has failed to grasp about his friend, relative to what we know". He does, however, add that Horatio "can be excused for how much he has missed; unlike us, he has not been privy to Hamlet's soliloquies". Exactly. Anything Horatio finds out, he has to intuit.

Also, regarding the Doubt that the stars are fire poem, Shapiro says, "It's mortifying to hear this lame verse recited and it underscores the danger of baring one's soul, because Ophelia, in 'duty and obedience', has betrayed Hamlet by turning these letters over to her father". This is rather amusing if one considers the correct (read: Miss Zara's and my) cause for the bad poetry. --But seriously, he has a point. It's wretched verse and it's even wretcheder being read to Gertrude and Claudius.

...And now I will stop babbling. But I finished the book to-day, and I am devastated that it's over. But it made my weeeeeeeeeek. ^______________^

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i can't grasp the idea of horatio liking the sound of his own words, though. XD particularly around hamlet -- it seems like he listens the most around hamlet, and talks the most in the first act, when he's expositioning, and in the last act, when hamlet's dead, so someone has to talk for him. in the middle it's mostly 'ay, my lord' and 'nay, my lord' and 'a truant disposition, my lord' -- i'm not making fun of you, horatio, really, i'm not. XD XD (and when he talks about 'carnal, bloody, and unnatural acts' i thought he was just being honest ...)

injokes are always wonderful. the only one i know is that when rosencrantz is talking about 'the tragedians of the city' to hamlet he's actually talking about, you know, shakespeare's company, the one that's performing for you right now.

... madgeekery is contagious.

For the record, i was going to say something much along those lines, but decided better as you all know hamlet better than me. and entering this here is not wrong. not!

nobody really knows hamlet, tom. except horatio. biblically. ... *innocent*

*begins briefly to wonder if all of shakespeare's plays can be reconciled into one universe, and how many people would know hamlet then.* I think Ophelia knew him. Biblically. *mocks your claim to innocence*

*rosencrantz has a crush on hero from much ado about nothing, if that helps? -- and we're pretty sure mercutio knows everybody* nymph, in thy orisons, be all my sins remembered ...

*since when? what did i... er... he miss? Mercutio doesn't even need to be in a reconciled universe to know others. If you know what i... he means* Which leads us to proof that SparkNotes is far too literal: "Pretty lady, please remember me when you pray."

*desperatefans is an amazing place! -- nobody ever knows what mercutio means, but according to guildenstern it's generally about sex (which is why guil challenged him to a duel, presumably, his sense of semantics was offended) --* and what do you think she's remembering, hm? -- but speaking of sparknotes, say, tom? do you know what we're supposed to read up to in heart of darkness? *is on page 40 or thereabouts*

*ah, it's a non-canon crush! Well then. (Ah, a duel for the honor of words; how semantic!)* But spark notes makes no allusion that! in the good book, it's page 61. For you heathens, it's... oh, expletive, where is that confounded assignment sheet...? Well, the only paragraph ending there ends "...nor I had any time to peer into our creepy thoughts." So when you get there, you've reached it.

*well, well (romantically semantic, even)* the good book? i had no idea the bible had so much to say about colonization in africa. but ooh, creepy thoughts. neat.

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tomecatti.livejournal.com - 2006-01-30 00:31 (UTC) - Expand

I agree. Unless there's a long lost scene that's missing from both (I only have two? ;___;) my copies of Hamlet, Horatio barely talks at all. The first scene is really for the sake of the audience (and the other characters, who should by rights already know about King Hamlet and Norway and whatnot, take him to be reliable and that's really all that matters). And in the last scene, he's been charged by a man and a ~~lover~~ friend to tell this particular story, so of course he's going to.

Hamlet, however, definitely likes to hear himself talk.

Why do I lack Horatio icons?

oh, yes. he just strikes me as very mild-mannered, man-of-few-words, there but listening. and there's that teenytiny speech about the dead squeaking and gibbering in the roman streets that i like -- it ties in with all that roman stoic imagery he's got around him, and helps establish him as a student of the classics. but now i'm off on a tangent, hi.

... but hamlet definitely likes to hear himself talk. that's the real reason for the soliloquies -- -- sorry.

you have a hamlet/horatio/yorick icon? nonetheless, this needs to be remedied --

And his 'flights of angels' is a lovely line as well. He definitely has a way with words when he wants to, though perhaps that's a result of studying the classics and being friends with Hamlet-- ...and that was my tangent. XD It's odd, because I've always thought of Horatio as a sort of Everyman, in that he's a sturdy, trustworthy ~~spectator~~ character who the audience can trust and identify with. (For instance, Hamlet sees the ghost and perhaps his sanity is in question, but Horatio sees the ghost and no one doubts it, not even Hamlet.)

Hey, I'm not arguing. XD XD

I do! ...and I swear that wasn't ~~really~~ a ~~big~~ hint...

plus they probably studied rhetoric at wittenberg, too. and they're shakespearean. ... but that's beside the point. they do a lot to build that sturdy-trustworthiness up in the first act, though -- why do marcellus and bernardo want horatio to see the ghost, for instance? because he's a scholar, because he's trustworthy, because he'll know what to do about it probably -- 'steady' is probably the word soujin's claimed for horatio, and that's what he is. steady and sensible, someone the characters can rely on, and the audience can hold on to. ... i wish i could write a paper now. ... that's a little sad.

XD

XD XD i meant to a horatio-icon in my last batch, anyhow. i just couldn't find the right picture. ;_;

True! Silly well-learned Shakespearean Danes. Exactly! And later, when the King himself tells Horatio to look after Ophelia when she's mad-- Horatio's there for everyone just because his steady and Good. And he really only speaks when he needs to-- I think that's the key. He can speak and speak well, but he knows when it is needed. His words are chosen carefully, or that's the impression I get. Of course, we're both influenced by Soujin's lovely Horatio.

DF Hamlet needs to ramble more. XD XD

^________^ This is my hopeful face. And "aught of woe or wonder" is a good line...!

ah, so true. :D he's there for everyone, but it's still never enough, which i think is one of the things that really struck me about the scott campbell version, which i think i probably babbled about before. or thought about babbling about. and it's true that soujin's horatio is spot-on, isn't it -- i remember her writing something about how when he was a boy he spoke like a man, and when he was a man he spoke like an old man, always speaking very carefully.

doesn't he ramble enough? ... of course not.

and almost what, an hour later ...

You're both ridiculous, and that was in Tricks of the Wind, and eeeeeeee, Horatio icon! ^__________^

ah, i think that's the first fic of yours i'd read. :3 :D and i'm still referencing it to-day! ... and yes, horatio-icon. :D :D

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rainbowjehan.livejournal.com - 2006-01-30 03:02 (UTC) - Expand

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rainbowjehan.livejournal.com - 2006-01-30 04:51 (UTC) - Expand

And it's all mine...!

Babble as much as you like. It's been my favourite adaptation of Hamlet since 2003. Hamlet and Horatio are really perfect, and Horatio sort of gets the importance he deserves in the last scene (as the last man standing, along with everything that entails-- he's not some stranger, he knew these people and now he's surrounded by their bodies). There's a special providence in the fall of a sparrow, though, and that goes for the entire nest as well; nothing anyone could have done would have been enough.

He barely ever rambles, Miss!

...

...

...

Can I really have it? It's gorgeous.

i would babble to my heart's content, but i'd just the same thing you did, but in different words. he helps them pick up hamlet's body, even then, he's helping, but you can imagine how awful that must be? and the fall of a sparrow or the entire nest, i like that -- (i suppose that's what makes it a tragedy, though, nothing ever being enough --)

then he should ramble more! :D :D

well, i made it for you, silly. ^__^

Now I can't, but a few years ago it was entirely plausible to me, and I wrote much on the subject, I'm afraid. Mostly he doesn't talk unduly around Hamlet; but when he's telling Hamlet about his father's ghost, the whole speech is just babbly and excited, like he's telling a narrative rather than relating concisely an event; or, at least, that was my impression at the time. But most of the time, yes, really, he's just there to be Steady for Hamlet. (...I still think he is, personally.)

They are. And oh! I didn't catch that one. *giggles* Thank you.

...'Tis.

you know, i never noticed that, the talking-about-the-ghost thing before. he doesn't seem unbearably babbly, though. just shakespearean. and you can imagine hamlet being just as excited about it, which is a little cute. (well, when you're in a room full of dead people ...)

hercules and his globe, too -- !

ay, verily. and i'm supposed to be doing my physics homework, not discussing shakespeare. 'scuseme.

No, no, he doesn't; just very babbly. Let's see, I'll find what I wrote about it back then-- (mind, it's very bad)

Horatio positively glows.

He shakes his head. Horatio was always rather like this. A disgusting mix of eagerness and prudence. Philosophic and deep, kind and understanding; and easily excited and fond of explaining things. And explain Horatio does, far more dramatically than the situation warrants, he thinks, ending with: "I knew your father; these hands are not more like."

"But where was this?" he is able to ask at last.

Here the man Marcellus breaks in to answer.

"Did you not speak to it?" He frowns.

Horatio goes on in his dramatic, silly way again, and amongst the needless phrases, he is led to understand that Horatio spoke to it, it made to speak back, but vanished when the cock crew.

Cock crew, he mumbles in his head. What an idiotic expression. There must be a better way of saying it short of 'the cock crew'. If he were ever King, he would change that officially.

"'T is very strange," he says.

"As I do live, my honour'd lord, 't is true, and we did think it writ down in our duty to let you know of it."

"Indeed, indeed, sirs. But this troubles me. Hold you the watch to-night?"

Marcellus and the other man agree to it in unison, making perfect fools of themselves to his mind.

"Arm'd, say you?"

"Arm'd, my lord!" And this time the bloody three of them say it at once. Horatio looks about at the others, blushing.

"From top to toe?" he asks, with slight amusement.

"My lord, from head to foot!" Again, the three say it. This time, it is Marcellus who blushes.

"Then you saw not his face?" Though he hardly shows it, it is the most important question he's asked yet.

"O, yes, my lord; he wore his beaver up."

Thank God for Horatio. The other two men are clearly senseless.

"What, look'd he frowningly?"

"A countenance more in sorrow than in anger."

"Pale, or red?"

"Nay, very pale."

"And fix'd his eyes upon you?"

"Most constantly." Horatio cannot repress a little shiver.

"I would I had been there," he says wistfully, longing to have seen his father again - if it was his father.

"It would have much amazed you," Horatio laughs in what seems to be surprise.

"Very like, very like. Stay'd it long?"

"While one with moderate haste might tell a hundred."

Both of the other men insist "longer" at the same moment. Idiots.

"Not when I saw 't," Horatio protests.

He coughs, drawing their attention back to what is important. "His beard was grizzled, no?"

"It was, as I have seen it in his life, a noble silver'd."

"I will watch to-night. Perchance 't will walk again."

"I warrant it will!" says Horatio.

"If it assume my noble father's person, I'll speak to it, though hell itself should gape and bid me hold my peace; I pray you all, if you have hitherto conceal'd this sight, let it be tenable in your silence still; and whatsoever else shall hap to-night, give it an understanding, but no tongue; I will require your loves. So, fare you well. Upon the platform 'twixt eleven and twelve, I'll visit you." He smoothes down his black tunic again, and finds the bit of rosemary in his hands. The others all speak, but he misses it. "Your loves, as mine to you; farewell," he murmurs as they begin to leave.

Quickly, he catches Horatio by the hand, and presses the rosemary between his fingers, kissing his cheek just barely. Horatio smiles at him from his lovely eyes, and then slips out with the rest.

...Very bad, and far too long, and very incoherent, but it explains a little of how I interpreted it back then. (...Well, yes.)

^____^ Those ones I catch.

--Oh, sorry...!

ah, that was probably the best way to explain, because you always do a rather nice job of characterizing your interpretations in fic -- you've gotten better at it, of course. :3 i see how it works. ... rich that hamlet can think horatio is overdramatic, though.

:3 :D :D :D globe references are love. i'd make a colorbar, but i need to stay away from photoshop for a while.

-- notice how i'm still not doing it? XD

I hope I've gotten better at it, at any rate... x____X But yes. ...Er. That Hamlet is very full of himself, I promise. He gets worse.

Bweeeeeee...! Oh, that's a pity, Miss.

--With pleasure, yes.

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