psalm_onethirtyone: (Hamlet [made by Nanni])
Soujin ([personal profile] psalm_onethirtyone) wrote2006-01-29 04:02 pm

"With the World Turning Circles Running Round My Brain..."

To be, or not to be. Aye, that's the point.
To die, to sleep, is that all? Aye, all.
No, to sleep, to dream, aye, marry, there it goes,
For in that dream of death, when we awake,
And borne again before an everlasting judge,
From whence no passenger ever returned,
The undiscovered country, at whose sight,
The happy smile, and the accursed damned.
But for this, the joyful hope of this,
Who'd bear the scorns and flattery of the world
Scorned by the right rich, the rich cursed of the poor?


...This is the version of the To be or not to be soliloquy first published in 1603. I cannot even begin to say how amused and thrilled I am. Except that I am very amused and thrilled. Because. zomg. ^__________^ Dorky.

It was published by the fellow who played Marcellus; James Shapiro says they know this because the only lines that were right were Marcellus', implying that he had actually, you know, learnt them.

But dude. There are just so. many. injokes. in Hamlet. It's not even funny (except that it really, really is). My favourite is the Caesar-Brutus/Polonius-Hamlet one, wherein the fellow who played Polonius also played Caesar, and Burbage, who played Hamlet, also played Brutus, so when Polonius says, 'I did enact Julius Caesar. I was killed i' th' Capitol; Brutus killed me,' he's talking about himself for serious. And, um, he's about to get stabbed by Brutus again.

...Not even funny.

Shapiro also points out that Hamlet's 'I prophesy th' election lights on Fortinbras; he has my dying voice' is kind of, oh, utterly ridiculous, since everybody is dead, and Fortinbras just invaded, dude. It's not like there's going to be an election. He also says--where is it, can't find it--aha, here--he also says that Hamlet's soliloquies are vastly important because Hamlet has nobody to talk to. And I quote, "His old friends Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are spies and viewed with suspicion. Horatio is deeply loyal, but likes the sound of his own words a bit too much and never seems fully to understand him (you can sense Hamlet's exasperation with his friend when he tells him that there 'are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy'. Given Gertrude's dependence on Claudius, she cannot be trusted either. And there's no hope of unburdening himself to his terrifying father, back from Purgatory"; he then goes on to address a great deal of reasons why Hamlet can't talk to Ophelia, either, and ends "We are all that's left". But. The sentence that grabs one's attention immediately is, of course:

'Horatio is deeply loyal, but likes the sound of his own words a bit too much'.

This is how I used to portray Horatio, long ago, when I first started writing Hamlet fanfic (to be precise, back when I was actually writing Les Mis fic and crossing it over with Hamlet. see Rosemary and Sage and Oranges); but now I interpret his character entirely differently (no, really?). It made me laugh and sulk both at once. Shapiro also goes on to point out several more examples of Horatio Just Not Getting It, most significantly at the end, when he has his 'so shall you hear of carnal, bloody, and unnatural acts' speech. "Horatio's words underscore much he has failed to grasp about his friend, relative to what we know". He does, however, add that Horatio "can be excused for how much he has missed; unlike us, he has not been privy to Hamlet's soliloquies". Exactly. Anything Horatio finds out, he has to intuit.

Also, regarding the Doubt that the stars are fire poem, Shapiro says, "It's mortifying to hear this lame verse recited and it underscores the danger of baring one's soul, because Ophelia, in 'duty and obedience', has betrayed Hamlet by turning these letters over to her father". This is rather amusing if one considers the correct (read: Miss Zara's and my) cause for the bad poetry. --But seriously, he has a point. It's wretched verse and it's even wretcheder being read to Gertrude and Claudius.

...And now I will stop babbling. But I finished the book to-day, and I am devastated that it's over. But it made my weeeeeeeeeek. ^______________^

[identity profile] silverdragon262.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
First Quarto has always made me giggle. (If you're interested, you can read the rest here. ...not that I have an odd array of Hamlet links, nope.)

Maybe Horatio hoped that the more he talked, there was that much more chance that his sanity would catch on, yo.

But of course we're the only ones who know the correct cause for the bad poetry. ^_____^

[identity profile] mhari.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 09:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Isn't it fun to find out that real, live, grownup, professional people are just as huge and dorky fans as you are? :D

Poor Horatio. *pets him*

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
... I like the modern version better.

The idea of Les Mis-Hamlet fanfic destroys my sanity XD

[identity profile] karla-yonit.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:10 pm (UTC)(link)
(It's really quite good. One of the first LM slashfics I read, actually.)

[identity profile] karla-yonit.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Ha, awesome. Shakespeare geekery is love.

erinpuff: (Shiny Kaylee (by megathy27))

[personal profile] erinpuff 2006-01-29 10:12 pm (UTC)(link)
^____^ You are a dork and I love you for it. Mad geekery is so. much. fun. :D

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:15 pm (UTC)(link)
(Oh, it's slashfic! even more destroying!

... But i do have a concept for Crime and Punishment-Hamlet normal fic. So i ought to shut up.)

[identity profile] karla-yonit.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:25 pm (UTC)(link)
(Slash is good! Also crossovers.)

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
(most slash is scary. Doesn't mean i'm against it. I just fear it.)

[identity profile] karla-yonit.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
(What fandoms have you been reading in?)

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
(None ^^;;; It's just the concept. It's not the gayness-i've no problem with gayness. I just... I've something against taking someone else's characters and making them have sex. Or make out. Fall in love, that's an iffy area. Fanfic itself i just don't generally enjoy... Crossovers amuse me to no end, though. even if i don't read them... jeez. i've really got no idea what i'm talking about.)

[identity profile] mmebahorel.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait a minute - someone took "election" to mean the modern sense?

[identity profile] karla-yonit.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
(But it's fun. :) )

[identity profile] little-lady-d.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
i can't grasp the idea of horatio liking the sound of his own words, though. XD particularly around hamlet -- it seems like he listens the most around hamlet, and talks the most in the first act, when he's expositioning, and in the last act, when hamlet's dead, so someone has to talk for him. in the middle it's mostly 'ay, my lord' and 'nay, my lord' and 'a truant disposition, my lord' -- i'm not making fun of you, horatio, really, i'm not. XD XD (and when he talks about 'carnal, bloody, and unnatural acts' i thought he was just being honest ...)

injokes are always wonderful. the only one i know is that when rosencrantz is talking about 'the tragedians of the city' to hamlet he's actually talking about, you know, shakespeare's company, the one that's performing for you right now.

... madgeekery is contagious.

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 11:40 pm (UTC)(link)
(Never denied that :-p just my distaste for it :-p)

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 11:41 pm (UTC)(link)
For the record, i was going to say something much along those lines, but decided better as you all know hamlet better than me. and entering this here is not wrong. not!

[identity profile] little-lady-d.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 11:47 pm (UTC)(link)
nobody really knows hamlet, tom. except horatio. biblically. ... *innocent*

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 11:50 pm (UTC)(link)
*begins briefly to wonder if all of shakespeare's plays can be reconciled into one universe, and how many people would know hamlet then.* I think Ophelia knew him. Biblically. *mocks your claim to innocence*

[identity profile] little-lady-d.livejournal.com 2006-01-29 11:56 pm (UTC)(link)
*rosencrantz has a crush on hero from much ado about nothing, if that helps? -- and we're pretty sure mercutio knows everybody* nymph, in thy orisons, be all my sins remembered ...

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
*since when? what did i... er... he miss? Mercutio doesn't even need to be in a reconciled universe to know others. If you know what i... he means* Which leads us to proof that SparkNotes is far too literal: "Pretty lady, please remember me when you pray."

[identity profile] little-lady-d.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 12:11 am (UTC)(link)
*desperatefans is an amazing place! -- nobody ever knows what mercutio means, but according to guildenstern it's generally about sex (which is why guil challenged him to a duel, presumably, his sense of semantics was offended) --* and what do you think she's remembering, hm? -- but speaking of sparknotes, say, tom? do you know what we're supposed to read up to in heart of darkness? *is on page 40 or thereabouts*

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 12:19 am (UTC)(link)
*ah, it's a non-canon crush! Well then. (Ah, a duel for the honor of words; how semantic!)* But spark notes makes no allusion that! in the good book, it's page 61. For you heathens, it's... oh, expletive, where is that confounded assignment sheet...? Well, the only paragraph ending there ends "...nor I had any time to peer into our creepy thoughts." So when you get there, you've reached it.

[identity profile] little-lady-d.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
*well, well (romantically semantic, even)* the good book? i had no idea the bible had so much to say about colonization in africa. but ooh, creepy thoughts. neat.

[identity profile] tomecatti.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 12:31 am (UTC)(link)
*what have we here? (Semantically romantic, perhaps?)* There's that whole thing about missionaries. Which qualifies as a reply to both comments!

[identity profile] silverdragon262.livejournal.com 2006-01-30 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
I agree. Unless there's a long lost scene that's missing from both (I only have two? ;___;) my copies of Hamlet, Horatio barely talks at all. The first scene is really for the sake of the audience (and the other characters, who should by rights already know about King Hamlet and Norway and whatnot, take him to be reliable and that's really all that matters). And in the last scene, he's been charged by a man and a lover friend to tell this particular story, so of course he's going to.

Hamlet, however, definitely likes to hear himself talk.

Why do I lack Horatio icons?

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